by Hellion | June 30th, 2009
Hellion: Aboard this ship, we love our men like we love our rum: strong, fiery, and able to sweep us off our feet. And like our rum, we like these men to be plentiful, but of excellent quality. (Nothing worse than bad rum…and poorly written men.) So it is with great enthusiasm and sincere delight that I welcome back to the ship, the most wonderful critique partner and writer of men who meet all these qualities, Dee S. Knight!
Dee: I see you’ve been hitting the rum this morning, Hells. Flattered as I am….
Hellion: It’s all true! Sin, tell her it’s true….
Sin: Of course, it’s true. Do you think Dee would call a fiction writer a liar? Now come, Dee, and have a seat. I see you shed your saintly sister, Anne, for this trip. How is she doing?
Dee: I’d never call a fiction writer a liar. Not exactly…. Um, Sister Anne is reading up on past Dear Abby columns to see if she can best me in next week’s A Little Sisterly Advice answer. No way she can, of course, but hey, gotta give her credit for trying. Thanks for asking, Sin!
Hellion: That’s all nice, but I want to talk about firemen. Your newest book with Liquid Silver Books is called Hearts Afire, and it’s about a fireman named Harm Reynolds. (Great name by the way!) Tell us more about this hunky, sexy guy—what’s he like, who did you base him off of, does he like a woman who cooks, and would he take me out on a date if I baked him some brownies?
Dee: Harm is a sucker for brownies, Hell, but I’m not sure about a date. Beth has him twisted around her grubby little finger now. He has past wife issues, too, you know, so maybe he should bake you brownies as a date bribe! I didn’t base him off anyone, sad to say. He’s all figment. In fact, with few exceptions I’ve never based a character off anyone I know. It’s not that I don’t know interesting people who would make great characters–writers, travelers, musicians, pirates–I just think it’s safer and more fun to make people up. A good friend named three characters in her first book after her friends and gave them sketchily similar traits. Surprise, surprise! None of them were happy. That’s because we almost never see ourselves as others see us. To me, it’s just safer to create characters entirely. Though a couple of the guys I work with–after they found out my heroes were hunks who got beautiful women and lots of sex–have asked me to base characters on them, lol. I guess they hope the story line will rub off.
Hellion: It’s truly tragic that the best men are almost always fiction. Moving on: as hot as you made him, you made his heroine as cold as ice. In fact, she’s called Ice Queen. Do you like to put characters together who are of the opposites attract variety, or did you want to simply find out at what temperature ice melts? *grins* And how quickly did she melt, by the way?
Dee: She melted faster than a Dairy Queen hot fudge sundae in a chocolate-dipped waffle dish on an Atlanta August afternoon. The third time he was with her, he was with her, if you catch my drift. (I know Cap’n Sparrow does, ’cause he has that hungry look in his eye. And who can blame him, with all the Dairy Queen talk??) When I heard the Hearts Afire series had to feature firemen, my first thought was of fire, heat, flames. (What imagination! It’s why I get paid the big bucks. Haha. More rum, if you please.) I liked the idea of pitting him against someone who was thought to be the opposite. The fact that he never sees her as cold when everyone else does, is a hint that they’re made for each other. I don’t always use opposites in characters. Sometimes it’s fun for characters to have the same traits. When both the heroine and hero want to be on top, the sparks can be fun.
Hellion: I like to be on top. Jack usually wins the coin toss though. (I think he had a double-headed coin though.) Never mind. Did you do a lot of research about firemen, life in a firehouse, et al, to help with this book? What sorts of interesting things did you find out that you got to use?
Dee: LOL! As you know, we live a mere block from a firehouse. A friend recommended I go up and interview a fireman. I’m too shy (yes, Demure is my middle name) to tell a man I’d like to interview him for an erotic romance. So, no, no personal research. God bless the Internet! The only experience I’ve ever had with firemen was when our apartment burned when I was 5 or 6, and when the alarm went off over and over in our apartment building in San Francisco. The SF firemen were such hunks I think my tongue hung out. When the alarm went off the second (and third and fourth) time, I raced to the lobby–as did most of the men in the building–just to watch the brigade. And before you ask, I swear I didn’t pull the alarm!
Hellion: Sure, you didn’t. Don’t worry, we won’t tell, Dee. You’re well known for writing emotionally touching, yet sexy books. (You frequently get 4 or 5 cup-star-and heart reviews because of this talent.) What advice would you recommend to writers who are trying to do the same?
Dee: Gosh, thanks! I think when I first started writing I told a pretty emotional story but with only marginal understanding of craft. When I found out that you were actually supposed to understand POV and scenes and silly stuff like conflict and motivation, I lost some of the emotion of the story because I was concentrating so hard on the craft. A good friend and wonderful writer, Jasmine Haynes, guided me back when she first read the Burning Bridges proposal years ago. She kept asking, “What is she feeling about this situation?” So, I’d pass along her same advice. When your characters have faced off (or bedded as so many of mine do), don’t just describe what they’re doing, ask yourself what they’re feeling. I keep striving for Jasmine’s expertise, but I hope I’ve found a decent balance between craft and emotion.
Hellion: Wow, writers really are like therapists, aren’t they? Ironic that my own characters are as reluctant to discuss their feelings as I am with my therapist. *LOL* Throughout many of your stories, your heroines are usually strong, independent career women who have confidence in pretty much every area of their life but romance. Would you say this is a common theme in your stories? If so, what do you hope readers will learn from your heroines?
Dee: Are they?? Gosh, I’m not sure I ever thought of it. You know, the strange thing is, I don’t think of myself as being strong and full of confidence. Maybe I write my heroines the way I’d like to be! What I wish for my readers more than anything else is that they spend a few hours engrossed in my characters and plot and be entertained. Mine aren’t message books. I like that heroines today usually seek out the alpha male, but not those of romances thirty years ago. Heroines today are hard to satisfy wenches! They want someone equally strong who will encourage them to reach their stars and be happy as individuals as they are as halves of a couple. I guess that’s what we all wish for. That’s what I try to provide. I’d like my readers to smile and say, “Awwww…” at the end of my books while they’re out finding their own romance.
Hellion: This is your fifth book with Silver Books, but your 17th book/story you’ve published, yes? What do you like best about e-publishing?
Dee: Not quite. I have seven novels and novellas, all with Liquid Silver (nine of you count Anne’s Burning Bridges with BookStrand). There are two short stories published as standalone books with Whispers Publishing, and I’m in nine anthologies, between Liquid Silver, Samhain and now Siren-BookStrand. I really like e-publishing. When I first started seven years ago, the big name publishers dissed e-pubs as being fly-by-night outfits with bad editors and few talented writers. The insults were deserved in many cases, but it’s mostly not the case today. That’s why many e-pubbed authors have gone on to be NY pubbed authors and why so many NY publishers are making sure they gain the e-rights to books. People will always want a book to “hold,” but that term is changing in context as devices like Kindle increase in usability and decrease in price. I’ve been very lucky to be involved with honest, business people who recognized the need for good book covers and excellent editing, and maybe that’s why I’ve been pretty happy where I am.
Oh, gosh, your question was what I liked best, lol. I think the shorter length of time you hear back on a submission and the general lack of restrictions placed on authors. With the e-publishers I write for, it’s pretty much if you have a good idea, you’ll probably be able to write it and have it accepted.
Hellion: Sweet! That is a rarity! Go e-publishing. What project are you working on now?
Dee: Well, the same day Hearts Afire – June (which I share with talented, Colleen Love) was released, another anthology project, Tasty Treats Volume 1 came out from Siren-BookStrand. It contains “The Elixir,” my first attempt at a ménage. I had fun working through the challenge of how to handle one woman and two men, so I’ve started two more. One is intended as a novel and the other (hopefully) will be part of another anthology next fall. The novel is a contemporary western and the shorter story is a futuristic Old West, if that makes sense. Once I get past these two stories, I’d like for Anne to get her rear in gear and finish the first in her series. If you have me back, I’ll tell you about it. *grin*
Hellion: Well, of course, we’ll have you back! And if Anne gets her rear in gear, we’ll have her on as well. *grins* We won’t even make her share the limelight with you.
Dee: Gee, thanks. *lol*
Hellion: What else do you have going on?
Dee: Jack (not Cap’n Jack, just Jack, who writes as Francis Drake), and I are also thinking of combining forces and writing a few books collaboratively. In that case, we’ll create yet another pen name, lol. Funny, I don’t have trouble keeping name and genre separate. Wonder what that says about me? When I write I often have the whole book laid out in my head. I have taken to outlining more (after someone we know and love showed me a good way to go about it, Hellion) and Jack and I brainstorm, often over breakfast at our favorite restaurant. It’s a family joint, so we have to watch how detailed our brainstorming gets… Anyway, it keeps life interesting being these different writers and moving my characters around like paper dolls.
Hellion: *LOL* I know the restaurant. That is a great place to brainstorm, I’m sure. They’d definitely keep the coffee coming. I love how you refer to your characters as paper dolls because that’s the last thing your characters feel like. We all wish we had paper dolls as well-rounded as the characters you write. Sin still flinches if I bring out that plotting board, by the way. It’s almost like Post Traumatic Stress Disorder with her. I’m glad you could make it work for you though! Well, I think I’ve finally run out of questions. I should let the crew ask some. Would you like more rum? Would you like some croissants and chocolate? A pillow to prop your feet up? Please stay awhile and visit—do you have any questions for us?
Dee: I’d love to slurp some rum and prop up my feet, thanks! Let’s see, questions… I know you’re too Amish for sex scenes, Hellion, but I also know Sin isn’t. But how about some of the rest of you pirates? Does anyone else write erotic romance? If not, why not? If so, please tell me the biggest hurdle you had to overcome. I just jumped into ER because I was too stupid to know I shouldn’t. My biggest problem (and based on the fireman book, still is) telling people what I write. Erotic romance aside, do you all have trouble telling people you write romance? Do you find people dismiss your writing as not “literary?
Thanks so much for inviting me aboard! The rum…I mean the questions and company have been great!!!
Trust me, I think we’re safe. I do believe God has more important sins to deal with. I’m a former Catholic, too. (Is there really such a thing??)
I forgot to say this book takes place in 1954 or thereabouts, when nuns were taken more seriously than now.
Hellion, you wear your Amishness well.
I picked up Menage on recommendation of Jasmoine Haynes and Leigh Wyndfield, and did enjoy it. I have to admit, though, my idea of a perfect romance is more along the lines of yours. Oh yeah, and he’d have to rub my feet.
Cap’n, ya ain’t unevolved. Yer just opinionated and that be fine… I don’t know if I could make it work in the ‘real’ world, but I like ta think…in an alternate univers, all things be possible.
Like me sis don’t believe in HEA… Yer life experience shapes yer desires and beliefs. Trust me, sis don’t know where the hell I found some a’ the things I roll wit’… Same parents, only three years apart…but miles a differences wit’ beliefs.
I like ta think anything be possible.
We needs ta build the perfect man…by act, not by bod.
Cooks, does dishes, makes love like a tiger, asks about our day, rubs feet… What else?
I imagine Kenyon is the best at blending both because she was a sci-fi/fantasy writer FIRST, but she happened to be a fan of reading romance–and she fought hard to combine the two.
However, she did it by publishing historicals firsts and getting her name established one way and then finally the editors were willing to take a chance on the fantasy/romance. And it completely snowballed. I wonder sometimes if Kenyon ever goes, “Nah-nah, told you so” or anything.
It’s not unevolved not to care for M/F/M, or any other alphabet gobbledegook. It’s being an individual about your likes and dislikes.
Veeva la deeferance–or whatever they say in the French Caribbean. More rum, please?
That’s what the problem is. Sabrina solved it for me! It’s the COMPETITION thing…and I loathe competition. I usually weigh my odds and try for things that I’ll likely achieve. It’s rare I try for things way outside the realm of possibility of having.
Is it heresy to admit I’ve never read a Kenyon?
*hanging head*
*snatching rum bottle away from Sin
Here ya go! Let me get ya an extra big tankard as we be divin’ inta deep territory now.
(shut up, Sabrina, don’t go there! We be enough off topic as is!)
Nay, it ain’t unevolveded atall! It be preference, period.
You’re having a THREESOME in 1954? *LOL* You have balls, woman! You so rock!
I do wear my Amishness well. Actually I’m reading a book right now, Plain Truth, by Jodi Picoult, and I swear to God some of the Amish things that go on in this book I’m like, “Yep, totally think that way.” and “Totally get that.”
I mean, it wasn’t for the hard work and lack of air conditioning, I could probably be Amish. Oh, and I’m pretty sure they don’t write books either, so that’s another thing I couldn’t live without, but otherwise…Amish…
Don’t feel bad, Dee. I ain’t read her either. I ‘ave a deep aversion ta long series wit’ books thicker as they go along.
So, ‘course, that be what I wrote.
Irony, thy name be Chance!
Hellion, I think you’re missing the point, sweetie. In a menage, BOTH men want you, desire you, want to whatever it takes (even sharing) to make you happy and satisfied to the point of passing out. And they can both be Alpha (though often one is more submissive if they’re with each other, too).
There is no being with the weaker or secondary guy. And there is no competition–they both want only to please YOU!
I find that to be a worthwhile fantasy. It’s like Paint Your Wagon except both men are ome at the same time, get it?
Cap’n…we could stitch a big scarlet “A” on yer tunic… Ya could explain it ain’t what would be thought ‘a…
Or am I referencin’ somethin’ too literary fer others ta get?
*ducking now
**You’re having a THREESOME in 1954?**
I needed conflixt, lol
OMG! Yer right! Clint were in a menage. In a musical!
Ohhhh, Chance, great idea!!
That’s like, Jack was recently looking into driving an escort car for heavy/wide loads. He told someone at a job recruitment service that he was checking into becoming an escort. There was a moment of silence at the other end of the line, lol.
Clint were! And you know what was braver than having a menage? He sang!!
*hangs head* I thought for once I was staying on topic! LOL!
Just explaining why its hard for me to get into M/F/M storylines – all I can think about is competition – at some point someone would have to want more attention right? Ok – so I’ll stop thinking about the real world and let fantasy take over…
Hel. Last Chance thinks ya might be her long lost twin…
She also said somethin’ be sad ’bout findin’ it easier ta believe in dragons than in HEA.
;(
But she do like hangin’ round the edge a’ the Revenge.
Escort! *snicker… Anyone catch that new HBO show called “Hung”? I don’t get HBO so I don’t know much ’bout it…other than the obvious…
Sabrina… Yeah, the competition thing. I guess, fer me…competition jus’ ain’t a factor. I suck at it, so I avoid it… A menage would wit’ me at the center would ‘ave ta be without it.
See!? I know how ta fantasize!
The few menage stories I’ve penned…the conflict be more on the outside. Which is a problem… I need ta think ’bout this… Competition would be a great inner conflict…or there always be the fear a’ being worthy. I jus’ finished a menage called Dinah’s Dark Desire (think that were the title) where it ain’t competition that provides inner conflict, but insecurity…
I think the point of romance books and happily ever afters is that once you read enough of them, you realize you have to make your own happily ever afters.
I think more modern romances show that aspect more and more. It’s less about “the one guy who’s the soulmate you rescues you” and more “I could manage just fine without you, but I find being with you makes me more content and I take more pleasure in everyday things”. Very subtle difference, but it’s there, I think.
*raises eyebrow at Dee* I’m sorry, the NUN HAVING A THREESOME wasn’t enough conflict for you? *LOL*
“Hellion, I think you’re missing the point, sweetie. In a menage, BOTH men want you, desire you, want to whatever it takes (even sharing) to make you happy and satisfied to the point of passing out. And they can both be Alpha (though often one is more submissive if they’re with each other, too).”–
You see this is so far outside the realm of my understanding, that it almost sounds like complete gibberish. *LOL* I can barely find one man to attempt to do this at one time, so the prospect of two is as likely to me as meeting Elvis. And once you’ve dated the gay guy, you NEVER think M/F/M fantasy is cool. You just don’t.
Hel wins.
Last Chance and I might be fiddles from the same tree. *LOL* I think typically the person who doesn’t believe in HEA are the ones who’ve been burned by the “second fiddle/settled for” dynamic.
Love in romance books only seems uncomplicated because it comes to a sort of happy resolution at the end of the book. But it’s still love–and love is rearely if ever uncomplicated. They just know where to end it on a high note.
Alright pirates – I’m out for today. Gotta go brave the hour drive home in the downpour that’s been off and on all day.
Have fun!
And yeah, contemporary romance is more believable because the heroine can move on alone. It’s a choice. Historicals? Not so much…
Likely why I enjoy the writing of Eloisa, but the HEA leave me feeling almost icky. I want them to be able to go on without the dukes. Yeah, right.
Bye Sabrina, see you later. Stay strong, us non-threesome-peeps got stay united!
2nd, do you really want to stir me up about historicals and plausibility again?
Now, now, HEAs in some form are present in every commercial fiction. Not just romances. You get a HEA when the killer is caught; when the wicked are punished; when the good are rewarded.
LOTR: Frodo drops that ring into the lake and saves the world–and then he gets to sail off with Gandalf, et al (assuming the book is like the movie) to the otherlands. Commercial ending. Good triumphed evil.
For love to triumph apathy, you have to have an ending where it shows the couple together and happy. It’s not different or any less realistic than having the killer caught and punished. It’s what we desire as readers.
*poke poke
Uh, no?
I was jus’ speakin’ ’bout me feelin’s ’bout the books, not the real way it were. Why I don’t read historicals fer the most part… Really! Not because they ain’t accurate, jus’ because I want more fer characters I’ve come ta care fer…
Make sense?
Did Last Chance make sense as ta why fantasy and romance ‘ave a hard time mixin’?
I think it’s because they ‘ave both been the omegas so long…no one takes the bottom spot in this fragile marriage.
No one WANTS to take the bottom spot…pardon me.
And the fans, a’ each genre, want this couple ta break up and not be married at all!
Sabrina, sweet thing, I didn’t mean to stomp on you!!! I wasn’t, really, truly!
I guess for me, when I read I suspend reality. That counts for whether the book’s about good witches, dragons, nuns in bed with two guys or a contemporary secretary whose boss falls in love with her. It’s all outside the realm of a poor woman in Illinois with too many bills and too little money. If the story’s good, I’m willing to read it and submerge all doubt.
To tell the truth, a lot of the time I don’t even want a book to be believable.
I think LC has a very valid point that everyone wants to be right and that’s why the two factions cannot get along because even though they’re BOTH right, there is always competition to find out who is MORE right. *LOL*
*raising hand*
I want the bottom…in one of my books, anyway.
Omega? You mean bottoms? Yeah, fantasy and romance have both been losers in the literature roulette. Both are taken as seriously as Captain Obvious; and so they are left with being serious about themselves to the point they are nearly brittle with the effort.
They’re like the loser kids in high school who suddenly find some popularity in their adult years, but rather than be gracious about it, they run the other loser down. Basically doing the very thing that was done to then before they were popular, in a bid to be taken more seriously and be thought more respectably.
Ladies, Jack is offering to make dinner for me–tonight that means he’s in the kitchen right now spreading peanut butter on a slice of whole wheat bread. Yum!
So, I have to go. I’ll check back after dinner? I’ve loved chatting with y’all today!!
Right.
And yeah, Dee…it isn’t about believability for me. I’m a sucker, I can believe anything…
Not terribly realistic, but I fight wit’ definitions a’ reality ta begin wit’!
Hard ta argue with bills, etc…
Here I go, runnin’ off ta buy a lottery ticket! Talk ’bout fantasy!
I agree, Dee. I read to take me away from reality for just a little while. No one wants to read a book about a girl who works in a dingy little office going over budget numbers and expense figures and daily reports who goes home at night to the same routine. That’s boring. Dull. Yes, I’m dull.
But, if the story is about a girl who works in the office by day, lusts for her boss, goes out at night and parties and has fun and lives this whole underground life outside of the office and the boss who doesn’t give her the time of day during the day finds out about her wicked nature and takes advantage of it- then people will read with great interest.
And that in no means is my real life. LMFAO And I do not want my boss to lust over me. That’s gross. Unless its Mattycakes.
Oh, man! I forgot to get a lottery ticket! And it’s up to $93M, too.
Shoot! I wonder if Jack would suspend PB spreading to run out and buy a ticket…?
*LOL* Does being on the bottom mean you don’t have to do as much work, because I’m for that?
Yup, that’s how I see it Hellion. Geeks at war with geeks. None of the literari take us seriously, either genre… So why we can’t unite and take on the rest of the snobs is beyond me!
Ah! But who’s on top? No one wants to be the vice president…
In a real top/bottom relationship…it’s a well known fact that the bottom really has all the power. Because the bottom can say ‘no’ and it all stops…
That’s it exactly, Sin. And if I can have two luscious guys lusting after me, who are willing to shake my bed like Jello at a church picnic (there’s a religion reference again–maybe I really am going to hell!), then I’m willing to entertain the thought even knowing it will never in a milion, zillion years happen.
And if you’re dull, woman, you’re in great company. When I first started interviews and chats as an ER writer people always said, “Wow! The research must be interesting!” Uh, no, I clean the toilets just like everyone else.
Hey! Dee, if you win…I reminded you to buy it! Share!
Absolutely!! Free rum and a healthy stipend to all Pirates!
Thansk for hosting me today, y’all!
Well, I’m off to spread some p-butter on some bread also. But fer me, it’s a late lunch. Be back later ta see if any fightin’ remains.
And Sin? The riddle a’ me secret stash goes wit’ me!
You ladies make it very hard to catch up. Just when I’d get through the comments, I’d refresh and there’s MORE. LOL!
At this point, I have no idea where to chime in. Lessee, never read M/M and no desire too. BUT, I think that’s because my brother is gay and I don’t want to read anything that could resemble his sex life. Squicks me out. Love him, happy for him, don’t want to read it.
Threesomes I think I could read. Not worried about believability if I know it’s not supposed to be. If an author portrays her work as accurate to it’s time, then the characters better act accurate to the time. If an authors portrays her work as pure fantasy, I can deal.
Not sure about the real life threesome thing. I think that rarely ends well. However, I believe a three person relationship could work, but the people would have to be incredibly well-adjusted.
The nun thing is cracking me up. Former Catholic here too and no I’m not sure there is such a thing. It’s not like I became something else, so I’m sort of still Catholic. Just don’t agree with 90% of the crap they dish out. LOL! No offense *makes the sign of the cross*
God and I are good, that’s all that really matter, right?
What about the bottom backwards? Just askin’…
I love what Last Chance said, though I was getting a bit riled up in the middle there. So glad she brought that around to something positive about Romance. LOL! And I kind of agree with her on the no HEAs. Except, I believe in RL there are HEAs, just not for me. I know lots of people who have them, Santa and her hubby being one example. But can’t stretch the imagination far enough to imagine I could find one.
*evil cackle*
I don’t need a riddle.
*wicked grin* Have a good night MM.
Dee!! As always, its a pleasure to have you aboard!
And I had a peanut butter sandwich for lunch. It was perfect.
Yeah, Terrio…we be breaking records wit’ comments taday…
Sis isn’t one fer bandyin’ words, that’s fer sure. I think she pretty much spoke how too many view romance, but I also think…like ‘er, that these views are fallin’ ta the wayside. As more and more authors admit how much romance is part a’ their books. And that they proudly sell in that aisle, call themselves romance authors…go ta conventions. And whether they did so ’cause a the cash in the beginnin’ or not…don’t matter at this point.
We be winnin’ the readers, and that is the bottom line.
Yer so outta yer league, ya don’t even know it, Sin.